An ITiMS Podcast
The University of Michigan's Integrated Training in Microbial Systems (ITiMS) program supports University of Michigan doctoral students exploring the burgeoning field of microbiome studies. In this podcast, ITiMS students explore microbial topics through games and conversation around research, government, and business roles.
Episode 3
In this final episode of this mini series, engineering PhD student Emily Crossette looks to the future and investigates if there is hope we can combat the looming soil crisis. What are scientists and policy makers doing to address this problem? Will microbes save the day? What is our role as individuals in protecting our soils? Listen in as we “dig deep” and gain more insight from our guests, Dr. Jo Handelsman and Keith Heidecorn, on what we need to do to save the soil microbial communities who are fighting hard for their survival.
Producer: Emily Crossette
Co-hosts: Nicholas Medina and Freida Blostein
Guests: Jo Handelsman, Keith Heidecorn
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Transcript
[Music Playing, “Little Idea” by Scott Holmes Music, scottholmesmusic.com]
[Emily] Hello and thank you for making it to the final chapter of this three-part mini-series. We are your hosts Emily Crossette,
[Nicholas] Nicholas Medina,
[Freida] and Freida Blostein.
[Emily] and we are fellows in the Integrated Training in Microbial Systems or (ITiMS) program here at the University of Michigan. We would like to start by thanking our guests, Dr. Jo Handelsman and Keith Heidecorn, and our sponsors, the Burroughs Wellcome Fund. The Burroughs-Wellcome supports our ITiMS Program where we are able to *dig deep* into microbial community sciences.
[Freida] Speaking of digging deep, so far in this podcasting adventure we’ve learned that our soils are in deep trouble and also how soil microbiomes are complex and fragile ecosystems. Are we as doomed as it seems?
[Dr. Jo Handelsman] The good news about soil erosion is that there are three really straightforward and well studied methods in farming that can almost completely reduce erosion to essentially zero and those are no-till farming where you don't plow the soil you drill seeds into it instead of making furrows with a plow.The second is cover crops which are planted after the main crop is harvested in the fall and they hold the soil in place over the winter. And then can add to soil fertility if they're just allowed to decompose back into the soil. And the third one is an intercropping approach where 10% of corn in these experiments have been taken out of production and the 10% of the corn is then replaced with deep rooted prairie plants which are the kind of plants that generated the great soils of the Midwest to begin with and it turns out that just that small replacement is enough to completely, or almost completely ninety-ninety five percent of the erosion is eliminated by this practice.
02:09
[Freida] Great! So we can just stop tilling and start inter-cropping! That doesn’t seem that hard?
[Nicholas] But if the solution was that easy, there wouldn’t be a problem…
[Emily] Yeah, I think there has to be a but...
[Dr. Jo Handelsman] But there are economic disincentives for each of those practices with farmers and so the rest of us in my opinion need to kick in and help and I think it's going to be up to the public and consumers to create an environment in which soil preservation is valued in an economic sense. And perhaps there needs to be a type of food that's raised with what we might call a soil safe label that would be like organic food that if you if, If a farmer certifies that they're doing the farming and raising the crops under soil-friendly conditions that are not going to be eroding the soil then they get the benefit of this sticker and they could then sell their soil safe products at a premium. But that would be a pretty large social change effort and I don't think it's going to happen overnight but I do think that consumers and public interest groups, environmental groups and farm groups getting together, and food retailers working together on this kind of solution is the only way we will actually see wide scale change.
[Nicholas] Yeah, so this makes sense, because farmers work on fine margins. But why couldn’t the government jump in, help farmers transition to soil-friendly practices, and solve the problem?
[Dr. Jo Handelsman] My experience in Washington convinced me that we are going to be hard pressed to develop legislation to affect soil health because I found that agriculture is one of the most contentious areas of politics in Washington and so it’s very hard to get agreements on new policies in agriculture. So I am a little disheartened and cynical of the possibility of getting a federal fix.
4:29
[Freida] Alright guys, to summarize, we’ve learned that we are on track for catastrophic soil degradation and the myriad of consequences that follow sometime by mid-century or so. Even though the solution has a proven fix, farmers can’t carry it out on their own, and the government is unlikely to enact legislation to protect our soils. That about right?
[Emily] Yeah, It seems that, like climate change, we can’t defer this problem to policy makers and heads of state. We are going to need public-driven grassroots efforts to enact change. But, I imagine it will take a lot of time for the public to fully understand the gravity of the soil crisis, enough to demand “soil-safe” foods.
[Nicholas] Yeah, I mean we know there are some technically easy solutions, BUT seems like there are a lot of big economic, political, and social challenges that we must overcome in order to save the soils.
[Emily] Is there hope for a solution that helps farmers AND soil today? Let’s pause for the first clue in the Microbe Puzzler. Then after the break, chat with Keith Heidecorn about some groundbreaking* products that Locus Agricultural Solutions is developing to help fight to save the soil.
[Music Playing, “Wholesome” by Kevin MacLeod, https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5050-wholesome]
[Emily] The solution to the Microbe puzzler for this episode is a bacteria species. This species comes from a diverse genus with over 40 species living in environments from soil to human hosts. Your first clue is that the root of its genus name comes from a Greek word meaning “bunch of grapes.”
06:02
[Emily] To get a better idea of how an industry is overcoming policy limitations and harnessing the power of microbes to combat climate change and to fight soil erosion, we spoke to Keith Heidecorn, the VP of Business Development and Emerging Technologies at Locus Fermentation Solutions and VP of Sustainability at Locus Ag. Keith was recently recognized as a young leader who is shaping the future of agriculture, as a recipient of an AgGrad 30 Under 30 Award.
[Emily] Thank you, Keith for joining us!
[Keith Heidecorn] My Pleasure!
[Emily ] So to get started, can you tell us a little about the history of Locus Fermentation solutions?
[Keith Heidecorn] Yeah, I’d be happy to. So our Founders, Andy Lefkowitz and Sean Farmer, previously had a company called Ganeden Biotech which was a probiotic-based company and what they did at the time was make probiotics and actual science instead of something that was all- to use not the best phrase- but hippy dippy in a sense, they made it actual science, they created research papers, patents, FDA approvals and then subsequently wanted to go into industrial biotech and created Locus Fermentation Solutions with the idea of using microbials and microbial dry byproducts to solve and array of solutions in different industries and for different applications and so we’ve been doing that now for the past 4, 4.5 years.
[Nicholas ] What is your take more generally on the power of microbes to address sustainability issues?
[Keith Heidecorn] Yeah, that’s a great question. What we do in Locus Ag we use live microbes that go into the root microbiome that help enhance that microbiome and get nutrients back in there. But currently a lot of our soils have been devoid of biology and because they have been over-saturated with chemistry at the moment, So just lots of fertilizers, we’ve almost been on this chemical cycle that we haven’t really thought about biology in a long time. And so what we do at Locus Ag, is that by putting microbes in there that are fresh, potent and at high concentrations, we are getting those populations back up, we are regenerating those soils and increasing carbon contents because we are expanding the soil microbiology that wasn’t there.
08:24
So that is what we are really focussing on and part of that effort is we are looking at how we can affect soil carbon content. A lot of other applications are out there such as composting and cover cropping which are all great efforts, but the root of all those efforts to bring carbon back in soil is that they try to get microbes in there, but the issue is those things take lots of time to get in there. So what we do is we bring in the army, not the swat team in there, we bring so many of them in there and we get them in quicker that we are able to get the soils healthier faster.
[Emily] So it sounds like this a big revolution from trying to replace what the microbes were doing by throwing the chemicals they would be producing in a healthy soil system and kind of letting the microbes regulate this themselves and better store nutrients and water and carbon in that important root zone for the plants to grow, does that sound right?
[Keith Heidecorn] Yeah, that is exactly what we are looking at doing ... We are still understanding the power of microbial populations to do that and we are testing many different crops and soil types and climatic conditions, since not all soils are the same, not all regions and crops are the same so understanding how those mechanisms work is what we are really focusing on in 2020. and understanding how much carbon we can put in there and how much we can enhance that microbiome.
09:54
[Music Playing, “Wholesome” by Kevin MacLeod, https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5050-wholesome]
[Emily] Now let’s take a break and test the power of your brain to solve this puzzle. The second clue is that this species has historically been identified by the activity of an enzyme it produces, a coagulase, which causes its host’s blood to clot. This is just one which is one of many virulence factors this species has in its arsenal.
[Nicholas] Would this be meant to replace pesticides and/or chemical fertilizers or could this be used in combination ideally? How do you think it fits in overall with other soil management and farming techniques?
[Keith Heidecorn] We don’t advocate for the elimination of fertilize completely but we use for the more efficient use of fertilizer. So what we've been doing studies on is decreasing the amount of fertilizer that goes into that crop. So cutting about back by 10-20%. We've had growers actually on their own unbeknownst to us till we recently went down to Florida cut it up by up to 50% of the fertilizer using our product which is not only good for the environment because it's less chemical runoff, less denitrification of nitrogen that becomes nitrous oxide but also it's cost savings for that grower. Yes the environmental side of it is important that we very highly stress. But these growers still have to make a living and they want to do both. So if they can decrease their fertilizer bill, do something good for the environment, and get a yield increase they're all on board. So, we're still doing more studies on reducing fertilizer in certain crops, but a lot of our growers on their own just see the benefits and start to back off the fertilizer.
11:36
[Emily] So to kinda summarize, these microbes aren’t just helping improve soil health, which makes the kind of immune system of these crops a little bit stronger but they’re also really bolstering the soil structure and preventing run-off of nutrients into waterways?
[Keith Heidecorn] Yeah, that is exactly what is going on. But it’s exciting to kind of see this go from just an idea on a white board to now something we can actually, actually affect and make an impact on growers lives and the environment.
[Emily] How is this field, do you imagine going to grow and change, especially with the political climate and how demand is changing from- at consumer-level for sustainable products and kind of at the international level, emphasis on enforcing carbon credits?
[Keith Heidecorn] I'll break out into two parts for you. One, I’d say companies are definitely big companies are looking at this. General Mills is definitely thinking about this because it affects their supply chain. Even though they're not in the business of growing crops, they are in the business of purchasing crops so those in the agricultural field is if it's damaged there, that effects all the way up them being able to sell more products, so a lot of them are looking at this from a supply chain issue.
12:59
[Keith Heidecorn] And then two they're looking at it from these insets of was to publicly say that they're reducing their carbon footprint. They're making these big goals to be “Reduced carbon footprint by 30% by 2030 or 50%” or whatever the number is and a lot of they've done so much within their four walls of their production plant. Right now agriculture is a black box for them and trying to unlock that and looking at ways to put soil carbon back in the soil is one way they're looking at. So looking at it from the inset perspective, they kind of check that box for their consumers to say, “The products you buy are grown responsibly, grown like with regenerative practices” because maybe not our parents generation doesn't think about that but I think more people our age and millennials and people coming underneath us are wanting to buy products that are done responsibly. They know there's a market out there and they know that they can tap into that as well as protect their supply chain.
[Nicholas ] Keith and a team from Locas Ag were recently part of the conversation at the last conference held by the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change, the COP25 summit in Madrid.
14:12
[Keith Heidecorn] At the UNFCC's the COP 25 … the big topic was article six was this new idea of the creating international carbon credit scheme. Unfortunately, that did not they did not agree on anything. Very much of disappointment. That was the big thing that government officials were brought to do. So we see it as an opportunity for businesses like us to lead the way when governments are not willing to take up the action to create these carbon systems. So we're gonna we're spending a lot of time and looking at ways that we can monetize carbon credits in soil.
We are currently sitting on as a technical advisor for Verra, which is one of the US and international voluntary carbon credit groups and working with them to create an agricultural land methodology. Because these voluntary carbon credit agencies are seeing this as- they want to get there now- and they're looking for businesses to help out get there they know someone like us, we can help scale it with them get these credits and have consumers buy it and eventually create these insets for these businesses such as General Mills even if the government/governmental agencies aren't willing to create international law at the moment.
15:28
[Emily] You recently also visited Al Gore’s farm, and it seems like a really collaborative and exciting field where people are really energetic and eager to help reduce the carbon footprint of farming. Were there any experiences or conversations you’ve had that have really excited you in what Locus Fermentations does or what other people are doing out there?
[Keith Heidecorn] It was quite the unique opportunity to go former Vice President Gore’s farm. He had a meeting with about 300 leaders in carbon sequestration and carbon farming and regenerative agriculture that he brought together. At that meeting it was just it was great to see other people thinking about this idea and coming in from different angles. There's there's not one way to skin a cat and there's multiple ways that the collaborative approach to make this happen and increase carbon farming, increase regenerative agriculture, and get it more mainstream. Because right now it's I like to think of it where we got like our finger on the pulse of the Zeitgeist, like this is a burgeoning field there's something new coming on people are still wrapping their hands around how do we actually do this. So seeing that we're not alone and leading the charge that there's other people; there's researchers policy advocates scientists that are looking at this and trying to figure out ways we can monetize this for growers ways we can bring this out to a larger audience was, was just inspiring.
16:53
[Freida] Soil probiotics seem like a really innovative product for combating soil degradation and bridging the gap between science, agriculture and the public. I also think its pretty cool that Locus Ag’s research can inform carbon credit schemes that make it easier for consumers like me to directly support sustainable agricultural practices.
[Nicholas] I mean it’s just really cool that scientists have made big efforts to study the complex interactions among soil microbes. And that scientists at companies like Locus Ag have applied this microbiology to develop products that actually rejuvenate soils quickly.
[Emily] Yes! I’m really encouraged by all of this, but I still want to learn more about what I can do as a citizen, and not a scientist, to increase awareness and consumer demand for soil safe agriculture.
Nicholas: Before we wrap up and talk about increasing awareness, let’s pause for the last trivia clue!
[Music Playing, “Wholesome” by Kevin MacLeod, https://incompetech.filmmusic.io/song/5050-wholesome]
17:53
[Emily] Like many bacteria species, some strains are innocuous colonizers and others are deadly pathogens. This bacteria persistently colonizes the noses 20-30% of humans! However, one especially notorious strain of this species is a deadly superbug. Infections caused by this strain were thought to be only nosocomial, meaning originating from health care settings. But at the turn of the century, a community-acquired lineage emerged, which has famously side-lined athletes including Sammy Sosa and Peyton Manning.
[Freida] I found it super interesting that both Keith and Dr. Handlesman emphasized the importance of the public’s role, specifically, in addressing soil degradation through awareness and demand for soil-safe agricultural products. It’s not just about scientific solutions- it’s also a social issue.
[Emily] Yeah, but right now, as an individual, tackling this enormous problem feels overwhelming.
18:53
[Nicholas] Yeah, it does. But the good news is, that society has conquered similar environmental challenges in the past. Like Rachel Caron’s Silent Spring book, and incidents like the multiple Cuyahoga River fires caused a national outcry that led to key reforms like the Clean Water Act and the creation of the EPA in the 1970s. This also came up in our conversation with Dr. Handelsman, who we see as the new Rachel Carson:
[Emily] So this is reminding me a lot of the role that Rachel Carson played and you know and really stirring up public interest and excitement and demand for our government to you know, take control over a lot of the issues particularly associated with you know, the chemical use and and pesticide use and so it's it seems like we need another kind of Rachel Carson event almost to, to really stimulate this.
[Freida] Well in like I think earlier in this conversation, you gave some really great examples of how it's not just any one silo; It's not just climate change, it's not just water quality, it's not just environmental pollution, it's not just soil. All of these individual pieces come together and influence us in so many different ways. And so kind of recognizing I think both as consumers like you were saying, and as voters and public advocates that soil is an essential resource for our way of life as we've known it is going to be huge. It feels somewhat like soil is under appreciated as an actual resource. I think maybe living in Michigan my whole life, I've always understood, you know are great lakes are a huge public resource, but I never really thought about soil, I think until I met you. What do you think- is there a reason for that? Is there something that we can do to change that?
20:57
[Dr. Jo Handelsman] Well, my hypothesis is that it's because people are so removed from food production today. But soil is so familiar, you know, we walk on it all the time. We build our houses on it. We use it to make pottery and it also is part of agriculture, but how many people today are actually directly associated with agriculture? It's a very small proportion as a few percent of our society. And that's a big change from even fifty and certainly a hundred years ago where the majority of people had some sort of association with agriculture and any association with agriculture usually leads to some appreciation of the importance of soil. So I think that soil has been underappreciated in recent times but perhaps not historically because if you look back at most ancient religions. So the deity that is held in the highest regard is often the one that represents soil and it's often the female deity. And even in the Bible, Adam, the first man in the Judea-Christian traditions. “Adama” Is the word for soil in Hebrew so it's Adam was made from soil. And so there there is a lot of historical appreciation of soil that I think has faded in the last probably hundreds to two hundred years because of the industrial revolution which enabled people to live very, very separately from agriculture and they live in cities and they buy their food which is produced someplace else, they don't really know where that is or what it entailed and the food comes to them in you know, a form that they can use pre-processed and packaged. And they don't really think about how it’s produced. So I think that raising awareness and that Rachel Carson moment that one of you mentioned I think is really important to reconnect people with soil. I'm actually writing a book about exactly that subject for a broad audience to try to bring people to the, the beauty of soil and the incredible power that the soil holds over us and of course that we hold over it.
23:30
[Freida] Wow! I feel inspired! Combatting the soil crisis can start with something really simple, just kind of reconnecting to soil and getting your hands dirty. I started this garden plot in a community garden behind my apartment this summer, and I’ve gained a lot of appreciation for the value and fragility of soils and how important they can be for producing good food. I have way too many zucchinis if you guys want some. And being in the garden and working with the soil does make me feel mentally healthier too - I feel like spending time outside in the garden and seeing this immediate process of working with your hands on something that grows as made me feel way more grounded.
[Emily] I can not wait for Dr. Handelsman’s book- and how it will unearth the complexities and importance of soil for the wider public.
[Music Playing, “Hopeful Journey” by Scott Holmes Music, scottholmesmusic.com]
[Nicholas] Yeah! And it will help the public-driven soil conservation movement take root.
[Emily] Well I don’t think we can make any more soil puns for the sake of our listeners. But stick around, because after we thank our sponsors, we will share the much anticipated answer to our microbe Puzzler!
[Freida] The ITiMS program is sponsored by the Burroughs Wellcome Fund. We’d like to thank the ITiMS program advisory committee, who has helped connect students like us, who study microbial ecology across diverse disciplines, in a really collaborative environment. We’d especially like to thank Professor Betsy Foxman who supported and encouraged this project from its infancy and without whom it would never have come to fruition.
[Nicholas] Support and guidance from science communication extraordinaire, Brian Lillie was also invaluable. You can check more of Brian’s talents by tuning in the School of Public Health’s Podcast Series “Population Healthy.”
[Emily] This podcast, and every ITiMS endeavor, would not be possible without the marvelous Anna Cronnenwett who always points us in the right direction, mobilizes invaluable resources, and encourages us along the way. Anna’s also an amazing gardener herself, so she is already fighting to save the soils here in our own backyard.
[Nicholas] We would also again like to thank our guests, Keith and Dr. Handelsman who were so generous with their time and expertise.
[Emily] Now… the moment you’ve been waiting for. This crazy organism, who’s name translates into “bunch of golden grapes” is Staphylococcus aureus. And the notorious strain introduced in the third clue is MRSA, which is short for Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. Special thanks to MRSA experts Dr. Kyle Popovich, Dr. Carl Marrs, and soon-to-be Dr. Stephanie Thiede for consulting with me on this Microbe Puzzler.
[Emily] Thank you so much for tuning into our podcast series where we have explored the beautiful and complex microbial diversity of soil and the important role soil plays in storing carbon, keeping water source clean and safe, and of course supporting our agriculture needs.
Music Attributions
“Little Idea” by Scott Holmes Music
“Hopeful Journey” by Scott Holmes Music
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